Please Read, it does matter - This Health
discussion was started
13-10-05 in the forum by Affie
Lovers members - in it's entirety it had over 90 posts!
| Jo - 13-10-05 - I hope Hazel doesn't mind but I am
going to post part of a private message she left to me when we were talking
about health as I think you should all see it...Health does matter! Quote Perhaps as Shirley mentioned this morning it's also my age that makes it worse for me, having spent a life time around this breed and knowing that 40/50 and more years ago we did not have all these problems....we expected our hounds to live a very long life, 16 /17 was not unusual, it was quite shocking when the odd one's did die younger unless it was from one of the infectious diseases that were around...now I am afraid it will become the expected, much as we don't really turn an eyelid when a child is murdered any more, it's so common it's almost the norm! I feel that I will leave this breed broken hearted after over 50 years in it because so few seem to really understand or care about what is happening. I wish they could all have been made to stand and see the way Ginger Rogers and poor Peanut especially died...believe me Peanut did not want to die, it was awful, and all her other children, it would have shocked even some of the most hard hearted...and it was so unnecessary, if all these problems had been talked about openly I would have understood more myself and it need not have happened. Sylvia hears about all these problems with other people on an almost daily basis but still it is being denied. Unquote |
| Mo - 13-10-05 - Its sad isn't it - for someone so
long in the breed to be so upset with regard to the things happening to the
basic well being of the animals themselves. Its not fashion nor fad that is
effecting them, just the unwillingness of all parties, large or small, to
get together to sort out any inherited problems. Its not even to stop
someone with a problem in a line from continuing their plans, its just so
that those plans would be able to incorporate a dog or bitch that didn't
carry that same problem. Better the devil you know - I think would be a
quote, I'm not sure. We both went through Hazel losing her beloved girls on a daily basis, you and I, being close to her, as did Lianne, and the effect it had on myself, from miles away, took weeks to get over, so I can understand totally how she must feel over the apathy of health issues that continue. What we are aware of we can watch out for, monitor changes, seek advice where necessary, and make at least calculated decisions. Standing on a blind bend with a ten ton truck hurtling at you, leaves you no time to make any decision at all. You don't even have time to scream! |
| Nikki 13-10-05 - OK here it is. I wonder
if there would be a way of getting a number of the average age of an Afghan
nowadays. I for one have lost the following in the last 14 years. Tasha - 6 - 100% American - Heart Tumour Tayha - 7 - 90% English / 10% American - Lung Torsion Zazz - 8 - 75% German 25% American - Brain Tumour Kyle - 10 - 100% English - Not clear. But bowel problems. Callie - 11 - 100% English - Diabetes Militus Every single one of those is far far younger than should have been, even Callie. And the bloodlines don't matter. For god sake, in 14 years 5 of my dogs have died, that is clearly unacceptable. Illnesses 2 x Pancreatis - I nearly lost Punky to that and both girls went down within a week of each other. Callie got diabetes as a result which we eventually lost the battle to control. 1 x A condition called Ununited Anconeal Process which affects a section of the elbow and stops the bone hardening properly. Unproven to be hereditary, I re searched for a long time on that one. Edited to add. Tasha and Zazz both suffered thyroid problems, while not the direct cause of their deaths, I suspect it contributed. Who else is willing to share and not be ashamed of this, it's not finger pointing it's getting the facts out in the open, what's the bet very few of you. |
| Gonny 13-10-05 - I cant see why not share info. Died: Tayfun 4 years./ Dutch/American lines, hypothyroid, cluster epilepsy, kidney problems Nilam 9 years/ almost 100% VDOM....died within 5 hours time from seizures that lamed him (not sure what's the right word) Illnesses....hypothyroid, pancreas problems, discoid lupus. |
| Nikki - 13-10-06 - Thank you Gonny. The difficult thing with Zazz is while I suspect Thyroid problem was contributory, my vet is positive it was not why he died, and treatment of it can't have saved him. He was on syloxine for years, as was Tasha in her later years to I need to amend my post. As they appear in illness but were not the actual cause of death. |
| Gonny - 13-10-05 - Welcome Nik, I am convinced most dogs don't die from hypothyroid as supplemented properly. Its the minority that gets secondary problems with it...or the other way around...some have illness that effects the thyroid gland secondary. It is and always will be difficult to discover what was first and why things happen like they do. Hope I explained my thoughts properly? Hard to express really... |
| Jo - 13-10-05 - Thanks Nikki for being so open and
Honest Illnesses... Polly - 1 1/2 - English - HT & Brian Tumour, Laryngeal Parayalsis .. not the cause of death Litter of 9 - English - Al tested Postive for ID (Immune Deficiency, please don't confuse with Auto Immune AI) - 5 of the 9 pups have been Ill, All with very different Problems - all still alive now aged 8 1/2 Edited Post to to explain ID... My pups all lacked a part of there Immune system call IgAs .below explains what IgAs do. Immunoglobulin An immunoglobulin is one of a class of structurally related proteins consisting of two pairs of polypeptide chains, one pair of light (L) low molecular weight chains and one pair of heavy (H) chains, all four linked together by disulfide bonds. On the basis of the structural and antigenic properties of the H chains, Ig's are classified as IgG, IgA, IgM, IgD and IgE. Antibodies are Ig's, and all Ig's probably function as antibodies. Immunoglobulin A (IgA) Immunoglobulin A (IgA) comprises about 10-15% of the body's total immunoglobulins. It is the major class of antibodies in external secretions, such as saliva, tears, bronchial mucous and intestinal mucous. IgAs are secreted on the body's surfaces as the first defence against bacterial and viral antigens thus preventing entry into the body. IgAs may be an important and effective antibody in areas other than mucosal tissues, such as the central nervous system. |
| Nikki - 13-10-05 - Yes you have Gonny, I understand, And that is exactly Hazels point isn't it, if everyone KNEW what illnesses there were in our precious breed then the knowing what to look for can lead to treatment early enough to maintain near normal standard of life. Thanks for your contribution |
| Nikki - 13-10-05 - Thank you Jo, I know you will tell the truth about things, I think I pretty much know who to expect to post on this thread, don't you? Shame is the majority wont. I wonder what happened to that health study that was done a couple of years ago, nothing ever came of it did it? What a waste. Can you think of a way to gather the information anonymously?? How about a poll with years 1 to 15?? for dogs lost in the last 15 years? that way no one will know who has said what, may encourage people to put the ages down and give us a clearer idea of what the 'average' age is now. Trouble is I doubt we will get enough people vote. |
| Hazel - 13-10-05 - Hello Nik...wow that took me by
surprise love! I will list my lot but to your message, from my understanding
it's not the thyroid problems that they die from but the related problems
because of the thyroid disease. The end cause of death is often cancers or
heart / lung problems in my lot and we don't know if the ones who died
before I had the girls correct diagnosis were HT to start with although by
the symptoms they showed I am assured by experts show that Peanut and Ginger
did show immune problems for a long time. This is why the research is so
important isn't it and to stand up and say we do have problems so be aware
and take steps to sort it out. Were some of the HT dogs HT to start with or
did they get a 'Sick Euthyroid' because of another problem...chicken or the
egg? Peanut UK / USA jaundice and many mystery and immune problems, seriously ill for 3 years - died a year ago aged 10 of mammary cancer. Both litters by different unrelated UK sires Ginger Rogers - Daughter - showed all signs of being HT - Pancreatic problem but diagnosed too late- died aged just 8 years of Dilated Cardiomyopathy Rhana - Daughter - died Aged 7 years - Pancreatic / spleen cancer Amber - Daughter - died aged 5 years - leukaemia Tyron - Son - died aged 6 years - Pneumothorax Rudi - Son - died aged 7 years - Sudden Heart failure - Died 12 hours after showing first signs of a problem. Amber 2 - daughter - last heard that at 8 years was seriously ill with mammory cancer in Spain Oliver - son - aged 7 had severe Aspergillus Yummy - daughter- ill from the age of two, heart problems, HT. Almost lost from heart failure earlier this year, often has lung infections, heart now reasonably stable aged 9 Tilly - daughter - aged 7 years HT, mammary cancer Izzy - daughter - aged 7 years HT benign tumours removed doing well on Soloxine Kira - daughter - aged 7 years HT - Just started medication Crunchie - grandson - aged 3 years HT - doing well on soloxine Plum- grand daughter - aged two - thyroid profile shows abnormalities but not yet HT and not yet known if she will become so or not. Needs life long testing. Has recently developed a heart murmer (not echo) Henry - Son-aged 7 years - Tested clear as 2 grand daughters have done, they are young so will need retesting later, fingers tightly crossed they stay well! Plus others of Peanuts children and grandchildren diagnosed positive HT, some still untested ? some have had tumours removed. I have not listed all the less serious problems. Forgive me if I missed any. Nik mentioned another daughter with LL torsion - died aged 7 years. God Bless them all but please don't tell me there isn't a problem |
| Jo - 13-10-05 - Hi Nikki Have edited my post to try and explain what my pups have... A poll would be a way of collecting Data, if you did years, how would you get number of dogs someone has lost also...as we can only vote once... we will have to think about this... :-) they could list illnesses as well Nikki, not just deaths |
| Nikki - 13-10-05 - It becomes very scary when they are all listed out doesn't it Hazel. God love them all. The thyroid one is tricky, as you say it is rarely the actual cause of death, but can be contributory. It is however easily controllable, and that's the point, the more know, the more test, the more can be done when it is present |
| Lyn - 13-10-05 - I admire you all for writing it all down, until Errol and hector were diagnosed with HT, I was quite shocked as a dog that young would need medication for the rest of his life, I had never had it in any of my Affies before, I think the youngest one that died was nearly 10, all the others were 12 and older, 2 were 15, but I would not like to go through again the problems that I've had with Errol, so it needs to be talked about to find some answers |
| Hazel - 13-10-05 - It is very worrying looking at it in black and white Nikki. The thyroid problem is easily controllable caught in time, Yum's is harder to control as she was poorly for so long before it was diagnosed and by then she already had other problems, I think they can sometimes live long lives on untreated HT but if something like a virus or a serious infection hits them then they go down very quickly. We know so little don't we but we do need to address these problems and to test for this particular problem I believe before breeding. Mine do seem to have had multiple problems which is a worry as they all seem to have died from something different at the end |
| Nikki - 13-10-05 - I know it takes courage to put it
on 'paper' but if we love our breed we can all do something to save even 1
Afghan, and that's simply to raise awareness. The trend this appears to be showing even in so few posts is that it's not ONE dog, or ONE line, or ONE country that has a problem or problems. It's everywhere and anywhere which simply means, everyone should test for things like Thyroid, everyone should know what the symptoms of say Pancreatitus are (I didn't and nearly lost 2 girls as a result) Everyone should understand what ID looks like. Let me get one thing crystal clear however, Afghan Hounds are not 'riddled' with disease, in fact I would say, although unsubstantiated that in general the breed is in good shape, and there are many breeds with very specific, very known problems such as cataracts or hip dysplasia where they have made a conscious effort to remove the problem. The thing is, if we ignore the early signs, we may soon be dealing with problems that take over the breed. Do you think that the American Cocker people dealt with it soon enough, well no. Because if they had it would not have afflicted the gene pool to the level it did, but everything is easy in hindsight. Lets Afghans look forward and prepare for our future with healthy hounds. What I am saying is that there are diseases that seem rife across ALL breeds, like pancreatic disease and thyroid disease or ID etc which, if known about soon enough by recognising the symptoms / problems can lead to treatment and happy lives for the animals concerned. Where there is proof that something is hereditary, we can reduce the risk factors by testing and breeding from the healthiest stock that we can |
| Pauline - 14-10-05 - Hi Jo, as you know over
the past 30 years i have been limited to keeping only one or two dogs at a
time but here goes Waggy - English with a VDOM line 7 &1/2 was an epileptic from age of 2 Sauron Shulamar - English died 8 years infection on toe that couldn't be kept under control had heart attack Rambo - English 13 almost 14 died in sleep only visit to vet to have nails cut and a sting on his backend and nose and an over dose of apples he nicked Q - English and Dutch never visited the vet never ill died age almost 15 two years ago back end went with age and had to put put to sleep Quest - Qs son English dilute Dutch, died last year age almost 14 same as his father only other visit to vet a kidney infection and lump on bum when he fell out of a tree thank god I seem to have been very lucky and I hope that continues I had a scare with piper this year which the vet thought was cancer it wasn't thank god and couldn't really be explained I posted the results from the lab when it happened it was some sort of infection all blood tests, negative at time |
| Jayne - 14-10-05 - I think I have been quite lucky
with my dogs with most living to between 12 to 13 1/2 yrs of age Apart from
my Wookie age 5 yrs (Chylothorax) which was devastating especially when I
look at his mother every day running around as fit as a fiddle age over 12
!!!! All my dogs are English / vdom with varying degrees of both lines and are quite closely line bred. As to your comment re: heart murmur..... Quite a few years ago a friend of mine rang me in tears to say that her vet had told her that her young bitch had a heart murmur she was dreadfully upset so I advised her to bring the bitch over and we took her to my vet and he examined her and said that she was perfectly normal and that what sometimes happens is because Afghans are a deep chested breed and don't have a lot of flesh on their ribs it can sometimes cause a slight echo which could be mistaken for a murmur!!!!obviously not in all cases but it could explain some! she lived to be almost 13 and eventually succumbed to cancer! she certainly never had any problems with her heart |
| Jo - 14-10-05 - You are right Nikki, Afghans in general are not to bad, and its not just one line, or one country, it can rear its ugly head anywhere. ID is a Genetic problem , Gene replacement only cure...ID is very difficult to diagnose, because until our litter , there had never been any recorded cases in Afghans in the UK ( and only one in the USA) so vets never suspected they would have this, there have been a few more diagnosed since. The reason this is very hard to diagnose is because like ours, its possible for a whole litter to be affected, but only 1 or some of them ever get ill or show signs of illness, When they do become ill they can be extremely poorly , vets test for everything, because symptoms are so varied in each animal, even out the same litter no 2 animals ever seem to have the same problems, but you never seem to find the cause, as all test come back negative.... they can go down in front of your eyes within minutes of being fine, which is very scary.. they seem to recovery spontaneously after being ill for just few days, or like Storm 3/4 weeks, some signs are, extremely High Temp with no found cause, Lameness in one or all legs, can move round each leg or just effect one... Bleeding into joints, spine, causing lameness or partial paralysis ,Haemorrhaging back and front, Mammary cyst/tumour that burst open, off legs , when x-rayed shadows seen, when re x-rayed in the same place an hour later nothing, Bitches have dreadful Phantoms off legs, very quiet with high temp, tumours/cyst that burst open, this is more than your normal phantom.., .. other signs maybe just being off colour for a few days, with a slightly raised Temp, but no cause found.. these are just a few of the signs I have personally seen in My litter, there are plenty more. You can see why many people and vets get them confused with other illnesses and are unable to find the cause. Like HT this can manifest its self in so many ways, so can easily be missed. if you or you know someone who has a dog, that just seems to get ill for no reason, and the Vet can never find the cause, it may be worth getting a test done to check their IgAs levels.. Just adding this Nikki, One of the Favourites things The vets diagnosed the girls from the litter with when they were ill was Campylobacter ..But it was totally wrong............. |
| Liz - 14-10-05 - Here are our dogs to add in the
discussion Velvet - English - 14 1/2 years old, no cause of death was given by vet, just old age. Henri - English - 9 years old, Kidney failure. His brother also died at the same age of the same condition. The rest of the litter though are still here and healthy, they are now 11 years old. I think this forum has been a great resource for health issues to be discussed and for people to learn. I know when Claire lost Henri she wanted to find out everything she could about kidney failure to see if it was hereditary or diet and Sylvia was a great help in this. I feel sad for Hazel from her email and would like to say that we are all not the same and in order as breeders we should not just be breeding to get the perfect confirmation dog but should be breeding for the health of the breed as well and should identify problems in lines and try to breed out hereditary problems |
| Hazel - 14-10-05 - I totally agree it's devastating when something like Chylothorax hits out of the blue when the others are all fine, again a good reason to have a little pre understanding of some of these things isn't it and of some of the very early symptoms that might make us suspect there may be a problem, as we never know if it could happen to one of ours...awareness again. I knew about the echo's and what a relief it is when it is only that but some of mine had murmurs, not high scale murmurs though. I also know dogs can live a long and uneventful life with a low grade murmur, I was thinking out loud really, Yum's murmur is very low grade, we knew and it was monitored but she went into heart failure....for me I wonder why does one dog live happily with a murmur, and I know a good few who have, and another have serious problems....could it be that it only poses a problem when the body is thrown into serious chaos from another problem....in Yummy's case Hypothyroidism. All a puzzle isn't it. |
| Lesley - 14-10-05 - Don't think I am not joining in here - I will get back in the next day with details of my dogs. I haven't 'come down' yet & have come back with mountains to do & have to go to the hospital this afternoon myself. But I will get on to it ASAP! It will be interesting to see if some people think that this subject is as important as the subject of which type of lead a dog is shown on!! |
| Jo - 14-10-05 - Hi Liz, thanks for joining in, As Hazel says the breed is in you young ones hands and it nice to see you showing a interest in the health issues... Glad Claire wanted to find out as much as possible about Henri, it does make things easier to understand |
| Jo - 14-10-05 - Hi Mo, It's very sad.. but I'm glad I posted it ..the response was never expected to be honest... At least this gives us a little faith that there are at least some out there that have the courage to list there dogs problems.. with out worrying about what others will say. To them.. well done, you at least love this wonderful breed |
| Hazel - 14-10-05 - Hello Lesley. What subject could
be more important than health issues...without good health the best looking
dogs in the world are of no use to the breed, and the dogs suffer! 2nd most
important subject is type, true afghan type to keep the Afghan recognisably
as it should be. 3rd is whether we should do a big cover up on health issues
to protect mates or not upset anyone....sorry but I don't think so, what
good does that do the breed if we love it, and what about the unfortunate
new owners. I don't hold out too much hope of many being honest though Lesley, I was saying how a young bitch of mine was 'loose' up front and needed a while to tighten up properly, I was quite shocked to see the panic stricken look on a few faces and being told to be 'be quiet in case anyone heard', if that's the attitude of some people over something perfectly normal and natural in our breed what hope eh? It is nice to see a few young people taking an interest in health though and very heartening |
| Shona - 14-10-05 - Hi Hazel, I'm really interested in this discussion - the people here are so generous and brave in their discussions of their dog's health issues. It can only benefit the breed in the long term to get these issues on the table so to speak. Both my young Affies seem very healthy so fingers crossed they stay that way but so far so good. I couldn't be more pleased with them in terms of general level of activity, healthiness and 'good doing' as my Granddad would have said (although its a horseman's term!). In fact Moley does a little bit too well - the little fattie!! In the past I have also had more than my fair share of luck with family and personally owned dogs living a long life - however I had a very vicious golden retriever at one stage and also one of my flat coats got cancer and died at 3. The Irish Setters of my brother were very healthy long lived etc. I had a Goldie lived till 16 - that was the longest lived dog I had. I cant remember my sister in law's hounds getting anything either but that was a long time ago. They were super healthy and fit as was she (all that walking) |
| Hazel - 14-10-05 - I am very glad you posted Shona and yes I know your two are super fit and really pleased they are and you are doing what Jo and Nik hoped this thread will do, reading and learning and if, god forbid, one of yours did seem to show symptom's of anything or seem not 'quite right' (the early symptoms of some of these illnesses can seem quite puzzling little things to start with) you may just remember something you read in here and think 'I wonder'...and help get the correct diagnosis in time. Makes sense doesn't it. We aren't brave Shona, we all ended up sobbing our hearts out again last night but silence and denial isn't a caring thing to do. |
| Sylvia - 14-10-05 - I have read much of these posts
and discussions with interest. It is good to read some individual breeders/owners ARE now coming forward & are now prepared to SHARE publicly their experiences, but this is only for STARTERS. Significant THOUGHT may at long last be going into just what is happening to some of our dogs. I know that many have considered many of my ideas OTT , almost bordering on obsession in some instances, You too Hazel have met & found such attitudes!. You never enter into the popularity stakes when you take on HEALTH! Now more factual evidence IS being presented but it is of importance that there is ALWAYS veterinary data to support that which is being presented. Frequently there may be much GREY AREA and not too much BLACK & WHITE. The making of lists & the suggestion of a Poll, in my view, for what it is worth, will be of NO CONSTRUCTIVE use if no one is prepared to take these matters FORWARD. AWARENESS may be highlighted but it must be carried further along the road. I have ALWAYs said that EDUCATING BREEDERS & making them SENSITIVE to ANY possible HEALTH matters is the BASIS for EVERYTHING. Any one breeding MUST learn from the health issues that might arise in the puppies they have bred in the SAME way as they learn (hopefully) from the conformation defects that might be produced. Yes too frequently it IS quoted that our breed, does NOT have significant HEALTH problems. I got into that argument on this forum just a short time back! Well true that in comparison to some other breeds we do not seemingly have the genetic problems that have been encountered in other breed. We have not appeared to have the problems of heart diseases and the cancers that result in EARLY death for example in some of the giant breeds, BUT we ARE now learning and understanding more & significant health conditions , including the above CAN and HAVE reared their head. LYMPHOMA in young to middle aged dogs, from my understanding, usually has a genetic component to it & we have seen a number of young dogs dying with this in the breed, such,in my view should be monitored. Possibly some of these diseases may have been with us for years and NOT been understood or misdiagnosed. Some of the IMMUNE DISEASES; HEMANGIOSARCOMA: INSULINOMA & CHYLOTHORAX comes to mind and before this there was LARYNGEAL PARALYSIS, once considered a terminal disease! Both CHYLO & LP are significantly VETERINARY documented within our breed. Disseminating relevant information & data amongst us via our BREED CLUBS & BREED COUNCIL is VITAL and these bodies MUST play a part in taking such matters forward. Many individuals, including myself in a number of breeds, have had to go it alone initially before being able to persuade other like minded within our breeds to become involved! Our newer generation of breeders may have different views on the breed for the contemporary show scene as such but when it comes to HEALTH & LONGEVITY, this can have an effect on EVERY HOUND The difficulties in research are many. DNA will at some stage help further in our understandings, particularly when the mode of inheritance is a simple recessive one, meaning that only one pair of genes is involved and that has to be doubled in order to show the disease, but it is NOT that simple, for example we still do not know too much about the mode of inheritance in Auto-Immune diseases or some Cancers but ethics & absolute honesty are paramount to the learning curve. We have to consider what may be produced in say 10 /20 yrs ahead as a result of what we are doing for today’s show ring in producing the winners! I would ask yet AGAIN, why there is this lack of interest in becoming involved & being prepared to try & LEARN BEFORE instead of AFTER the event. Time & time again HEALTH/EDUCATION lectures are cancelled due to a lack of support. It does not affect (or concern ME! Never met this in MY dogs!)!!! I can only reiterate what I have said so many times that there is NO crime in breeding a dog that gets SICK, we are producing living individuals, but it IS a CRIME, in my view, to COVER UP such or continue to travel down the SAME ONE WAY STREET in perpetuating more heartache for individual owners! Of course for someone less unsure to STAND UP AND BE PREPARED TO BE COUNTED, the CIRCLE CLOSES, The talk & pointing fingers……SILENCE RETURNS! …….and our DOGS again lose out to become once more the innocent VICTIMS. SORRY I have waffled on....AGAIN!...but this is ONE subject that really gets to my HEART! and have just put down the phone to another owner who WAS coming to the chylo lecture who had had 2 whippets with CHYLO, one bred & one bought in (to replace the original chylo victim who had died!) & he has given me even MORE feed back information & thought on this condition!! so it is VITAL that we ALL continue to SHARE!! Sylvia. getting off her soap box but NOT to be SILENCED....EVER!! |
| Hazel - 14-10-05 - Well said yet again Sylvia. I have to say I took no persuading to speak about the problems I have encountered, I simply am still shocked I was expected to keep quiet about it in the first place and pretend it wasn't happening...it was called hype for heavens sake. Well if my list is hype I would hate to think what the real thing is. Keep at it Sylvia, you are one of the most caring about this breed, and all other breeds come to that, people I know. |
| Pat - 14-10-05 - Well I suppose I must be one of the
lucky ones ( well almost )All of my dogs have reached OVER 12 years old. I
have had Trampas, Rufus,Tigga, Rhana, Khala, Remy reach nearly 14 to 14 3/4.
The youngest I have lost one was 11. That was my Pooghan bitch who was born
in 1971 and most recently Beulah. They both had
mammary tumours. Jacob was almost 13 and he died having fits. My vet however
had been treating him for sometime as he thought he had a problem in his
brain. All the classic symptoms. My boys went with old age i.e. off their
legs. 3 died in their sleep ( Nathan, Khala and Beulah and 3 had heart
attacks ( Jodi, Ziggy and Portia ) Interestingly these were father, son and
daughter. However when Sita was 18 months old she went down with Auto Immune haemolytic( ?) anaemia. She was treated successfully at Bristol University and went on to be almost 13 when she died. None of her brothers and sisters had any problems but none were bred from. At the moment I have 1 Reuben who is now 12 and Jessica who will be 12 next March. As I have said in a previous post I have NOTHING to hide and will always answer any questions concerning my own breeding.( if I can ) |
| Jo - 14-10-05 - I know all yours have lived to a grand old age, and we have often spoke about health, you know Polly had her problems but she finally succumb to old age, we don't need to hide anything do we , we are not ashamed of the problems are dogs have had, and freely speak about them.. shame others are not so forthcoming. thanks for posting Pat |
| Shona - 14-10-05 - Hi Hazel, yes, you are so right - years ago when my flat coat died of cancer at three I took it as just one of those things - she had never been completely 'right' - now i feel so much better informed and would have acted more effectively. Health threads here also prevented Bamba's mastitis from getting nasty earlier this year thanks to you and Moira as we have discussed many times. I think the amount of posts and views shows that it does matter very much and I hope more people will come out and tell about their own experiences! |
| Sylvia - 14-10-05 - NIKKI this is the second time I
have tried to respond to your message but this computer is playing up so will
try again and this is much briefer than the original format!! I will reiterate on my earlier comment..."Now more factual evidence IS being presented but it is of importance that there is ALWAYS veterinary data to support that which is being presented. Frequently there may be much GREY AREA and not too much BLACK & WHITE. The making of lists & the suggestion of a Poll, in my view, for what it is worth, will be of NO CONSTRUCTIVE use if no one is prepared to take these matters FORWARD." If YOU NIKKI ARE prepared to gather data, statistics etc, well this could be a START.... but you first will have to get owners/breeders to participate and track records for health surveys and questionnaires, not just in Afghan Hounds but in many breeds, from my discussions with other likeminded people, are not good. Then you have to decide what you are going to do with this data. The BREED CLUBS I feel MUST become involved in the long term Any discussions that :PROMOTE an AWARENESS to relevant HEALTH ISSUES are to be ENCOURAGED at all times. If YOU are prepared to take on such a project well then I wish you luck, you may well need it! Can I also say that in gathering information, the health history of a single individual dog may not always provide useful indication of an underlying problem, specifically with genetic disorders .FAMILY RECORDS could be far more relevant. Keep the ball rolling! |
| Sylvia - 14-10-05 - Unfortunately flat coats do have a cancer problem SHONA as you may now be aware which is why there is specific research going on at the AHT funded by the FC communities I believe amongst others |
| Shona - 14-10-05 - Hi Sylvia, no I didn't know that - I don't have flat coats any more, the girl I had, Sophie was very intelligent, a wonderful gun dog, retrieved from a tiny pup and swam like a fish - she also knew her right from her left which amazed me! She was very unpredictable though and could be very aggressive at times, maybe the underlying problem manifesting itself? After reading (and listening) to the stories on this forum it is not surprising now. I wish the flat coat community the best of luck, they are a lovely breed |
| Phil1612 -14-10-05 - We have lost Affies in the past
at young ages, I cannot say what the breed lines were because many were
rescue. I can say however that of the few we have got from breeders that most have died after about 10 years. We did have one dog that had a growth appear on her head within months of buying the dog and when we approached the breeder we were told it was because the dog had hit it's head! As people have read before they will realise that I have little time for most breeders and that saddens me because without them we would not have the beautiful dogs that live with us. My argument is that over the years many breeders ignored problems either through ignorance or greed and now we are starting to see problems in many lines. Having said that it appears we are lucky in that we seem to suffer less than some breeds |
| Hazel - 14-10-05 - Hi Phil, I think you are missing the point of this thread a bit. The people who are posting on this thread DO CARE about Health matters which is why they are posting, and not all but most of them are breeders, we are trying here to see what can be done. |
| Di - 14-10-05 - Cindi (our "rescue" girl - three
homes before we had her) - no major illnesses until she developed pyometra
when she was nearly 11, although she had had the odd bout of coughing prior
to that when X rays revealed secondary tumours on the lungs, though the
primary tumour could not be found. However, she had the operation for pyo,
appeared to recover well, but within four days was going downhill rapidly.
Our vet decided she would have to be opened again but she died under the
anaesthetic. Therefore never knew whether the pyo or the cancer was the
problem, possibly one triggered the other. Daisy - very healthy, energetic normal afghan who was shown, raced and lure coursed. However, she developed Addison's Disease and although everything possible was done to deal with this, she died in her sleep after her liver haemorrhaged. She was just 7. Sophie - again very healthy, shown, raced, lure coursed. Had a litter of 8 healthy pups at 5 years of age which was normal until the last puppy for which she had a caesarean as she had secondary inertia due to a dead puppy being stuck in the birth canal. Two years later she was spayed following a severe infection of the womb - possible pyometra She was between 10 and 11 when she started occasionally dragging a back leg, then swaying at the back end, and eventually total collapse. She had been diagnosed with CDRM (chronic degenerative radiculomyelopathy) which is a wasting disease of the nerve tracts and nerve roots in the spine. We were told that this would develop very rapidly towards the end and this is what happened. Sophie was just 11. She had also had a dislocated hip at about 8 years of age but this was successfully treated by our vet. Bramble - Sophie's sister - again very healthy throughout her life and who was also shown, raced, lure coursed. She was also spayed at around 7, following the discovery of ovarian cysts causing a severe discharge. She was 10 when she developed thyroid problems for which she was having treatment following bouts of vomiting. She also developed a cough and although she had X rays, scans, tracheal flush and tonsilar swabs on her throat there appeared to be no real cause, but she had to be rushed to the vet one evening with blood clots in her mouth, and a tumour on her tongue was diagnosed. Bramble was diagnosed with tracheitis in 1996 hence the need for throat swabs, washout etc. She was euthanised as there was nothing that could have been done for her. Daisy, Sophie, Bramble and Nina were very closely related on the maternal side. Zeta was diagnosed with ovarian cysts in 1999 - and she was spayed. Emma - exceedingly healthy girl who once again was shown, raced and lure coursed. She had a litter at 5 with absolutely no problem whatsoever. At 11 years old she started limping slightly on a hind leg. It didn't improve with rest, and she was diagnosed with bone cancer in her foot. Surgery was carried out to remove two toes to try to arrest the cancer but the foot ulcerated and wouldn't heal and then we found the cancer had spread to a front foot as well. She was put to sleep two weeks short of her 12th birthday. Maya - Sophie's daughter. Very healthy, shown in her early years, but then became an absolute star at racing and lure coursing which she adored. Then at 7 years old she was operated on for torsion of the spleen. All appeared to be well and she was back racing etc., after months of recuperation. Then she developed bloat with total torsion of the stomach. Once again this was successfully operated on and with due care she recovered well though was obviously never raced or lure coursed competitively again. At 10 years old she developed laryngeal paralysis, which was not able to be operated on as following an X ray she was found to have an enlarged heart due to thickening of the muscle. She was put to sleep five days before her 10th birthday. Of the dogs we have now only Jared, our 9 year old boy, has had a major problem. He was the only one in Emma's litter to have Juvenile Pyoderma (puppy head gland disease) and was under the care of the vet from six to fourteen weeks of age. He responded very well to the intensive treatment and was very successfully shown as a youngster, until he decided that he much preferred the race track to the show scene. He does have a blockage of the tear ducts from time to time which may, or may not, be inherited from the Juvenile Pyoderma. |
| Vonnie - 15-10-05- How strange things are, I only emailed Hazel a week ago about writing my story on little Chyna's condition, as I said to Hazel it will take me a week or so as it will be upsetting for me to do, So watch this space. As I'm sure its been said many times before a lot turn a blind eye to problems, so they can keep breeding, but its not them that suffer its the poor dogs and there unfortunate owners. Thankfully Affie people are not as bad as some other breeds, and most of Affie breeders are very responsible and do want to now so I hope Chynas story will help. (hers was not anything inherited )just an unfortunate thing for her. I still cry a lot over her, don't know why she has touched me so much, I've been with dogs all my life and seen so many of my close companions have to go to doggie heaven, even GSD pups but I cant do anything about it, her photo sits in 3 rooms in my house so she's around as much as the others |
| Jo - 15-10-05 - Hi Phi, thanks for your post. I know your not keen on breeders, But I have to say, there are posts in this thread from people that have been in the breed 30 years plus, there life has been living and breathing Afghans, that's how much they love this breed, and those breeder have shared there dogs problems with us all, Most good breeder are more than willing to be upfront... like anything in life, there are always a few bad apples in the barrel, and sods law being what it is, those are the ones we come across first.. hugs to your lad |
| Jo - 15-10-05 - Hi Vonnie, We can wait as long as it takes you to write about little Chyna's condition, Its not easy I know, If your like me, you will start to write then just find yourself sat there staring into space thinking about them, and others that are no longer with you, and before you know it the time you had set aside to write it has gone and you may have only one line written down |
| Sylvia - 16-10-05 yes SHONA they are
indeed a lovely breed but typical gun dog, too submissive at times for my
own personal choice although I could easily live with one!....now that "I am
of an age to wear purple", a friend has them & sadly they are known to be
amongst the FEW breeds with a TRUE problem with a SPECIFIC type of cancer, I
quote Malcom Brearley onocologist. "there are few breeds which have a true
problem of cancer but notables are the flat coated retriever (aggressive
soft tissue sarcoma) and the Bernese Mountain Dog (systemic & malignant
histiocytosis) The latter is what it would appear dear PASHA the Afghan
had....RARE but DEVASTATING when it occurs in ANY BREED! It is very relevant
to keep a eye on ALL so termed RARE tumours in ANY breed...how long is a
piece of string! When my NIJINSKY was diagnosed with an INSULINOMA (pancreatic tumour affecting the cells that produce insulin resulting in an excessive output of this hormone) he was then the FIRST treated Afghan at the AHT,(1997 until his death 1998) since then I am aware of several others both positively diagnosed & a number with a QUESTION MARK. In a recent letter & I quote from one of the vets who treated FREDDIE. "As you have experienced, all us dog lovers have different priorities, and health/research isnt always top of the list strangely ! Anyway, I'm not going to preach to the converted......please keep in touch and let me know if there are more insulinomas that you come across, you might be onto something as the breed must be relatively small in number and the tumour isn't all that common" The AHT is doing a lot of research into cancers & we must assist in anyway we are able in our respective breeds....this is why I have stated categorically that our BREED CLUBS MUST be come involved in ALL HEALTH matters and I know that the FCR people have done a lot for research funding in their own breed. I hope to learn more from Malcom's talk on CANCERS at the forthcoming KC/BSAVA Seminar. |
| Cathy - 16-10-05 - SHAHNI - 8yrs 11mths, cause of death 25/7/03 tumour on/in her heart, diagnosed with HT, (later tested negative?), also diagnosed with Cardiomyopathy |
| Shona - 17-10-05 - What would we do without you, Sylvia? You should write a book, you seem to have the knowledge at your fingertips for all of these health issues!! I don't think that now I have had an afghan I could go back to the gundogs - as you say totally different personalities - I love Banba's arrogance and independence, afghans seem to have something other breeds don't - I'm hooked now! What interests me from a personal as well as a canine perspective is the health problems which precede the cancer - especially symptoms of immune disorder. Are any of these cancers linked to specific chronic health problems in the past of these dogs, this is a very interesting topic |
| Phil - 18-10-05 - I did get the point was just moaning! I have to say that the dogs we have had from recommended breeders have all been healthy and lived to good ages, We have had rescue dogs that have however died young and while it could be breeding it could be how they were treated when they were younger. I know there are many people out there who breed Affies and love the breed that are always striving to make the breed stronger and healthier who would never do anything to harm the breed. Our boy is well thanks his treatment is now stabilised and he seems much happier in himself |
| Sylvia 18-10-05 - Shona I will come
back in more detail when I have a bit more TIME and usually if the become a
LONG message , I like to write on note pad and then transfer as this
computer plays up and switches off after I have usually scribbled reams and
ALL gets lost and then I lose my train of thought & have to start again!!
AGE THING!! ME & the COMPUTOR!! but YES some TUMOURS ARE very much linked to
the immune system * response, we are back to the GENES AGAIN!! I hope to learn more at the seminar to clarify one or two points that are of my own interpretation BEFORE I commit my thoughts to words. I am NO VET & have never claimed such but way back in the DARK AGES when I nursed!! I did work some work in oncology so some of the stuff has been retained on the basics, but technology, research new ideas and drugs & treatments etc of course moves on. |
| Lesley - 19-10-05 - Here are details of
what each of my dogs has died from, starting with our first Afghan, Tasha,
who we bought in 1970. Tasha – mainly British - cancer (chest) – age 13 Tara (Tasha’s daughter) - old age – age 16 Purdey (Tasha’ daughter – different litter)– brain tumour – age 7 Penelope – (British) - enlarged heart – age 12 Marie - British/vDOM– stroke – age 12 Jenny - (Penelope’s daughter)– liver failure – age 12 Freda – (Jenny’s litter sister) cancer (chest) – age 10 Bosch – British/vDOM - cancer (spleen) – age 10 Khara – (Bosch’s daughter) - brain tumour – age 11 Hanukah - (Marie’s daughter) – age related problems – age 14 Horace – (Hanukah’s son) megaoesophagus (unconfirmed) – age 11 Jade – (Horace’s litter sister) - bacterial complications following a dog bite - age 1 ½ Elsie – (Hanukah’s daughter – different litter) - cancer (stomach) – age 11 |
| Alison - 20-10-05 - Hi thought I
would add my dogs to the list. Cal- English/American lines, brain tumour age 3 1/2 Rags- (rescue), autoimmune age 5 ish Fi- English/American/Australian, dermatomyositis age 7 months The hardest loss was the baby Fi as we bred her and felt so guilty, her illness is though by the vet to have been caused by vaccine reaction. |
| Hazel - 20-10-05 - Hi Allison, I hadn't heard of an Afghan with Dermatomyositis before so went to have a read up about it, it seems it is quite common in Shelties and Collies and they have put up a lot of info about it. I will get together some information on this condition for the health pages and thank you for sharing (I must do that soon) |
| Alison - 20-10-05 - Yes Hazel it is very common in collie breeds where it is hereditary, thankfully this is not so in Afghans. it took along time for little Fi to be diagnosed because I kept getting told by the vets that Afghans don't get it. Eventually the specialist who read her biopsy results got it right, but she was so unwell that even on the right medication she was still breaking out in skin lesions and in a lot of pain. I will write a bit for your health pages one day but it is still too hard to think of it too much just now |
| Hazel - 21-10-05 - Hi Alison, Fi's story would be much appreciated when you feel you can write it for us but only when you are comfortable about doing it. It's very hard I know and I am so sorry about what happened to her. I think all these conditions can be in all breeds of dogs which again is what we should be aware of |
| Hazel - 21-10-05 - Update on my girls Small update which may be of interest to several of you who have contacted me about my girls conditions and your own dogs similar problems. Although very carefully fed yet again they have had violent and unexplained bouts of diarrhoea which was thought to be a either a bug or a virus and to my surprise the Plum, whose heart was tested fine at Xmas now has developed quite a heart murmur. We have had very extensive faeces testing done on them all and yet again it has all come back as totally clear of everything except massively excessive normal gut bacteria despite daily doses of Acidophilus (Marcelle no worms or eggs at all of any sort). What is actually happening is when they get bouts of upset tummies it is because their immune systems which are already compromised by the HT immune problem can't cope and the normal gut bacteria is constantly growing madly out of control which can really cause problems in itself, it reaches a level where it either has to be partly expelled in large amounts, hence the violent diarrhoea, or will affect other organs such as the pancreas etc and then you get even more problems, and it still leaves behind far too much bacteria and the build is starting all over again. For those who have read my girls story this is the most likely reason why Peanut got all that endless dreadful diarrhoea while pregnant which tested clear for everything. Her body was even more stressed because of the pregnancy so the normal bacteria was growing out of control and her immune system wasn't good enough to cope with it all. This is also the reason that Yummy at times looks as if she is going to bloat, and partly does. In a healthy dog the bacteria is able to naturally be kept at a normal level. All the endless Synolux my girls were being given would not have really touched these bacteria enough so a strong antibiotic like Baytril (in my girls case) or similar is needed. Plums heart will be retested shortly and we are hoping to find that with the bacteria lower and her body more normal her murmur will have gone, we will see. The bacteria problem is for life I am afraid because of the immune problems and will need careful monitoring. For those who are worried about these Health threads, it is far less worrying when you start to understand a little bit about what is happening and can manage some of the conditions properly. |
| Jo - 21-10-05 - that's rather interesting...as you know my lot had the same thing a week or so before your Girls.. and the 2 I knew had lower immune systems, were bad for only 48 hours.. then came right, The one adult I thought was ok and healthy , but is very similar lines to your girls was very poorly with the runs for over a week...its all very strange...you know I was worried sick about Chilli and the babies, but they never went down with the runs.. and they live all together, seems like the bacteria their bodies make is poisoning there own systems, so as not to be poisoned they get the runs ...I'm having the dog tested for HT , as I cant explain why he was so ill, and it lasted so long, and we shall go from there |
| Hazel - 21-10-05 - Perhaps because you know for sure your Chilli and babies do have such good immune systems is the reason why they were totally unaffected when your others had upset tummies. I agree, get your boy tested, if it comes back clear then that's great, if not then you know what the problem is. Nothing to lose is there apart from the cost of the test. Yes It does appear to be poisoning their own systems so the diarrhoea is a defence mechanism of sorts. I think the reason the excessive bacteria doesn't always show to such excessive levels when tested is because we don't normally take a sample from the very first bout of diarrhoea do we, normally samples have been taken after a day or a couple of days when already a lot of the excessive bacteria has been expelled so the cultures show a lesser amount. This time after the first girl had the runs as soon as the next one did it I started to collect samples which had longer culture growths on them for everything that could be thought of. I have been asked why mine seem to get the runs at the same time, the vets I was with then, not now, always insisted there had to be a Campylobacter problem (one of the boys did test positive once for this) and made us treat all dogs together, even when the first sign of a problem was in someone else's dogs who used to visit, one of the visiting (related) boys always had the worst diarrhoea, so all my girls gut bacteria was being dampened down together and all growing again at roughly the same fast rate. Add a tummy bug to the existing Bacteria problem and it all gets even worse. Yum was the least affected this time but she has recently been on Baytril for her lung infection. They can seem fine between bouts, which can be months depending on the rate of growth, it comes suddenly and without warning. The last time was at Christmas. Glad you find it interesting Jo |
| Elizabeth - 21-10-05 - The thread is
very interesting and informative and I shall have to re read it more slowly
as I have just sort of skimmed through while catching up. My dogs have all lived to between 10 and 13 years. Of my present three Boris is 6 and a half but the girls Marnie and Poppy will be 12 and 15 next month. |
| Brian and David - 21-10-05 - Our
contribution: Blue - aged 7 1/2 - result of an accident Dusty - aged 10 - old age Chanelle - aged 15 - old age (rescued at 10 years old) Beano - aged 11 -old age Misha - aged 12 - result of suffering a stroke (rescued aged 1) Bunty - aged 11 1/2 - result of suffering a stroke Page - aged 11 1/2 - mammary cancer All our dogs have British breeding, Dusty and Blue had a tiny bit of American breeding behind them. We have been so blessed that most of our dogs have come to the end of their time when age has dictated |
| Cathy - 21-10-05 - I am going to have to
go slightly off topic here, but bear with me and all will be revealed.
Shortly after Christmas, I became rather unwell with similar symptoms to
your dogs! I put it down to over rich food and didn't think any more about
it. I had awful stomach cramps, a huge bloated belly and felt sick and
extremely dizzy, to the point of sometimes having to hold on to the walls to
keep my balance. I just put up with the symptoms, presuming it to be an
unpleasant virus which would run its course...but it didn't. You remember the funny threads between Jayne Edwards and myself, about me 'forgetting' Ash at the Manchester Champ show and making my way back to my car without her? Well, yes it was funny afterwards, but the reason I nearly forgot her, was because I felt so ill. Marcelle will remember me being so bad at the ringside that I asked her to watch me all the time in the ring, in case I collapsed. Other kind people thought that I was hungry and bought me various foodstuffs to eat. (Mark White gave me some disgusting hot chillie stuff in a sandwich, which he thought was delicious...yuk, made me worse!) Anyway, the symptoms were less some days than others, so I just put up with it all, until at Cruft's, things really came to a head. At the end of the afternoon, a piece of Sharon's chocolate cake was the final straw, (reason will become clear later). Thankfully Dave had come with me or else I could not have got home. I spent the next 5 days in bed, feeling very ill indeed. A friend who listened to my symptoms was interested in hearing that I only felt better if I didn't eat, with the symptoms returning with a vengeance when I did have something to eat. He thought I had food allergies of some sort. (Sorry, I am trying to make this as short as possible). So, after having blood tests done, my results came back that I was indeed intolerant of many staple foods, amongst them, wheat, gluten, starch, yeast, milk, cheese, eggs, etc. etc, the list goes on and on. A few months later, after trying to avoid said foods with varying degrees of success, I eventually got to speak to a consultant, who said that I had a condition called 'yeast proliferation' due to, wait for it...*** EXTENSIVE AND EXTENDED USE OF ANTIBIOTICS *** In the few weeks before Christmas I had been on 5 consecutive courses of AB's for two particular ailments that refused to clear up, and had also had AB's a number of times in the previous year. These drugs of course, kill all the bad bacteria, but also kill off all the good bacteria, which our guts needs in order to work properly. This allows the yeast which is naturally in our bodies, to take over and when this happens, it causes actual physical damage to the body and can even get into the blood stream causing many other symptoms. You remember that I said I could not sculpt any more because of the painful arthritis in my fingers...well, she says that this was probably not arthritis, but a direct result of the excess of yeast in my system. She suggested that I go immediately on some very powerful probiotics. The ones you can get in health food shops contain approx 2 billion Lactobaccillus cells per capsule, the ones she gave me, contain 30 billion per capsule. (These are not available in shops, but are available on the internet). She also recommended that I take L-Glutamine to boost my worn down immune system and said that I should be able to tolerate a return to some of these 'banned' foodstuffs in about 2 months when my gut had healed. I was a bit sceptical to say the least, but I took them faithfully as directed and now 4 months down the line, I am happy to say that I can now eat 75% of my former diet, with no adverse reactions at all. My symptoms have all but disappeared and I am so relieved I could cry. Sometimes the pains were so bad, I was tempted to call an ambulance. Even the pain in my fingers has considerably eased, so much so, that I may soon return to sculpting. Phew! Now onto you. It suddenly struck me that your poor dogs must have been subjected to a ton of AB's over the last few years and if taking a few courses messed me up so badly, then what must it have done to your girls? I have no idea of amounts of course, but I think it would be well worth trying a prolonged course of the most powerful probiotics you can get. They need to be powerful, or else it is a case of one step forward and two back, as the yeast grows more rapidly than the probiotics can grow the good bacteria. She also told me that a high yeast proliferation can cause heart palpitations, along with with the aforementioned joint problems, all of which disappears when the body is back in balance. Thanks for sticking with it, but I just thought that a full history may just help. |
| Hazel - 21-10-05 - Hi Elizabeth, glad you have found it interesting. Am delighted your Hounds live to a good age, 15 is a very good age and I hope they all live that long for you...it's lovely:-)) |
| Hazel - 21-10-05 - Hi Cathy, the unexplainable diarrhoea came long before the antibiotics, in some of them it was the first sign that something wasn't right and definitely Peanuts first symptom of an unexplainable problem, the girls have as large a dose probiotic as the vets say they can safely take (and I really do trust my two present vets) and it isn't a food allergy, we've been there and done that ages ago. Everything they have now is aimed at boosting their immune systems including their carefully planned diets, in my girls we now know what is causing the problems. I dearly wish it wasn't though and could be put right that easily, it would make me a very happy person. Will give the L-Glutamine a go though, anything that will help is welcome as long as it is safe for them |
| Cathy - 21-10-05 - Sorry Hazel, I didn't mean in any way to suggest that food allergies were at the source of their problems, because I know they aren't, sorry if it sounded like that. I only mentioned my allergies as an example of the chaos that can be caused by taking anti-biotics, painkillers and other powerful drugs, over an extended period of time. I was under the impression that your girls had received many courses of anti-biotics recently, but obviously I am wrong. I just thought if they had, then their symptoms could have been made worse by the drugs reducing their immune capabilities. Good luck with the L-Glutamine, it probably won't make much difference, if any, but I suppose anything is worth a go in the present circumstances. |
| Hazel - 21-10-05 - Hi Cathy, yes you are right, they have had masses of antibiotics but not until well after the symptoms first started and not now since well before last Christmas, when it was thought they had a virus. last Xmas they were put on Antepsim and not the usual useless, for my girls at least, synolux. Yummy had Baytril earlier this year for another lung infection along with her heart pills and she would have died without them anyway, putting them on soloxine has made a difference slowly and surely. This last big bout of tummy problems has taken ten months to materialise, that is certainly a lot longer than it used to be. Yes because of their basic problem everything was reducing their immunity... we got there in the end lol |
| Hazel - 21-10-05 - I have just updated my List with another of Peanuts daughters...Kira aged 7 diagnosed Hypothyroid |
| Sylvia - 22-10-05 - Hazel, I well
remember how hard Alison fought for her little bitch Fi & how devastating it
was for her & especially her young daughter when it was felt kinder to let
Fi go, I am sure given the passing of TIME Alison may be able to SHARE her
experience of this, one of the more rare AI disease. Losing any young dog is
always a very painful experience, whatever the circumstances but even more
so when you felt that you had been doing everything possible to protect your
puppies. Sara Gould spoke about this condition at the CIMDA Seminar in 2002
& this is taken from my notes for anyone interested. DERMATOMYOSITIS is an Immune Mediated skin disease. it is an UNCOMMON disease most commonly seen in the COLLIE breeds It is a disease still NOT fully understood by the veterinary profession. A number of theories exist including involvement of an infectious viral agent. The signs of this disease generally appear from 7 weeks to 6 months of age, typical signs are an alopecia; erythemia, scaling; crusting; and sores. The lesions are to be found on the face, inside the mouth' and can also effect the limbs, tail & the pads. Myositis which is an inflammation of the muscles develops after the skin lesions which is very painful. Some cases may resolve spontaneously; steroids and high doses of Vit E and the Omega oils have proven useful but the more severe cases carry a poor prognosis. I will also add here her further comments concerning AI diseases. The role of environmental factors is now recognised to be of major importance in the expression of immune mediated diseases in humans and it is suggested that this is equally applicable to dogs. Exposure to environmental microbes is now believed to be the major predisposing factor in ANY auto immune disease, which MAY explain why some of the seasonal trends seen in some diseases and why natural infection and vaccine induced exposure may trigger an immune mediated disease in some dogs...BUT... an underlying GENETIC susceptibility must be present. It must also be remembered that auto immune diseases are less common in the general dog population when compared to diseases such as CANCER |
| Sylvia - 22-10-05 -Hullo ALISON,
good to see you in this thread and I am sure that given TIME you may feel
able to SHARE your most painful experience of this rare disease with Fi, I
know how hard it was for you at the time even more painful when they are
"YOUR BABIES" I hope the rest of your "family" are ok and the "kids" are
still enjoying the junior handling. Can I ask, and you may prefer to mail me privately, was CAL's brain tumour positively identified as such? |
| Alison - 24-10-05 - Hi Sylvia, Cals tumour was verified on post mortem. It is never easy to lose a dog but Fi was especially hard as she suffered so much but was still so loving and happy, she had known nothing but pain from about 8 weeks old and I think she just thought that's how life is. I will get round to writing it as it could happen to someone else and if they are lucky it will not be as bad and it is not always terminal. Thanks again for all your help at the time |
| Jo - 02-11-05 - Hi Hazy, just an update on The Lads Face... They thought it could have been a number of things, the worst was a mass cell tumour, due to the rate it come up, and the texture of the lump and the size of the mass...and it was between layers of skin....Or A tooth abscess, or Insect/dog bite, They did not think it was a tooth abscess, because of its position, and the mass itself was very soft.....They gave him a shot that if it was a insect bite , it should have taken the swelling down very fast.. it did not work, so we knew it was not an insect bite....anyway after a weekend of panic, the dog on very strong antibiotics, things have improved...The lump did turn out to be a abscess, but why it appeared where it did , is a mystery... its now shrunk back down and we have to keep the hole clear to let it drain... The only problem i have now is that I had to cancel Flynn's thyroid test due to him being on antibiotics, so now got to rearrange |
| Hazel - 22-11-05 - I am very glad it is clearing up now Jo and thank goodness it wasn't a tumour....I should think the vet is glad you have had to delay the testing knowing what a big baby your boy is, it will give the vet time to build his strength up again. Hope it continues to go well for him |
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